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FW: [Christs_Chosen_Few] The Man who Challenged the Quran

December 9, 2009
From: Connie []
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:56 PM
Cc: Thalia Sanders;;;; Thalia Sanders
Subject: Re: [Christs_Chosen_Few] The Man who Challenged the Quran

Dear Dalia,
You wrote: The Church itself did not dare to adopt any of such theories but at the same time it did not admit the truthfulness of the Muslims’ theory that the Noble Quran is, without doubt, the last heavenly revelation.
Thalia:> You fail to understand the position of the church. The church is under the leadership of Jesus Christ, as a joint-heir, He is the brethern to the believer. The gift to a church is an Apostle, a Prophet and a Evangelist, some get it and some don’t, sad to say but true. Therefore, no one in the church cares about Islam because there is always a new Prophet for the church. Even Jesus said that God stopped giving prophets to the Nation because the Jews were the one killing the prophets between the alter. I think that you should learn about Christians and Jews before you assume that we accept the veracity of the Quran. I have no idea who they are talking to and I from what I read it seems like a peaceful book, but the threats of wrath are very graphic and disturbing. The author is not a descendant of Jacob, so I personally would not accept anything from the Quran, but it’s a nice book, there are books out here that are horrible and don’t promote peace and harmony.
The church is what is on the inside of you, if you attend church then you should be fellowshipping with the saints to experience the Gospel: ressurrection of the dead; healing; preaching; and teaching. There are many people who are very ignorant, and have not received the gift of evangelism, prophecy which consist of interpretation and edification. So you must remember that the distinction between Islam and Judah, which lives through Christianity is the covenant of land (expansion); descendants; blessings and redemption. Repentence and worshipping the Son of God, because our High Priest is permanent and sits on high, on the right hand side of God is a fundamental theology of Christianity and Judiasm for those who served in Judah under the High Priest, the descendants of Aaron. However Israel is another story and another Kingdom, and once the Priest of the Lord were expelled and killed by Doeg the Edomite at the command of Saul – mostly the descendants of Moses sons and well seasoned Levites from every tribe, then the only one to escape were the true flesh and blood line of Kohath (1 Samuel 22 through 2nd Samuel 22, and Deuteronomy 32). 
An individual of Jewish descent does believe in Jesus Christ because not only was he their flesh and blood that walked the earth, but they believed that the unconditional covenant that God made through Abraham is irrevocable and fulfilled. Now I meet a lot of Jewish people who adopted or converted into their Religion, but they are in no way descended from Jerusalem, not even at the time that Christ walked the earth. I am especially proud of Jesus because he was dark complexion like me, not too light and not too dark, same hair type etc.
Jesus came to fulfill the scriptures, so that I might have life more abundantly. Jesus, He is my rock, my sword and shield in the middle of wheel. He won’t never ever let you down – he is just the truth that I have found. Hallelujah, Hallejuah, I love to praise his name. His Holy name. No other saviour, Messiah can you get excited about when you praise His name, it is the Highest, and you can not be saved by anything else. What is more important is the spirit of promise, which is the annointing.
The church is the spiritual legacy that Isaac gave his son, Isaac before he became Israel, with the name change. The spiritual legacy encompasses expansion of land and descendants. For the tribe of Judah the land would be from Egypt to India. An individual like myself, having rights to an Aboriginal tribe, then it would strategically put Judah in a position to be an heir to the land God gave the Native people. Read the scriptures of how Jesus fulfilled the scriptures so that you may have abundant life:
  1. Matthew 26:54
    But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"
    Matthew 26:53-55 (in Context) Matthew 26 (Whole Chapter)
  2. Mark 14:49
    Every day I was with you, teaching in the temple courts, and you did not arrest me. But the Scriptures must be fulfilled."
    Mark 14:48-50 (in Context) Mark 14 (Whole Chapter)
I encourage you to subscribe to my Groups we are going from Genesis to Revelation and back again, or you can enroll in a Christian Seminary, which contains scholarly and accurate proof about the revelation of Jesus Christ. I personally do not read the Quran, so I can not validate if it is a true or false book or religion. I do know it was copied from the Bible, which was scribed by the descendants of Kohath. I am barely knowledge able in English so at this time, I can not even dream of the day of reading the Quran in Arabic. I have too much respect for the system of Islam to do a stupid thing like that and try to beat down the veracity of thr book. From what I hear, I love the prophet Muhammad. However, I love Jesus even more because he is my flesh and earthly brethern; he gives life to true believers that are christians and together some of 3 billion well we are all brethern in the annointing. You can tell that we know the reality of Jesus by the smile and look on our face, we are true to His life and our own individual ministry.
I am a Prophetess and an Evangelist, a gift to the church, and I am a blood born descendant of Levi, so Jesus is extra special to me; because I know he is chosen to bare the legacy of Judiasm in it’s final hour. Many Christians and Jews I meet are not blood born into the legacy of Jacob, and neither have they been called, so they don’t understand the passion that I have to spread the message that the Messiah has risen (Matthew 28).
  1. 1 Corinthians 12:28
    And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
    1 Corinthians 12:27-29 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 12 (Whole Chapter)
  2. 1 Corinthians 14:12
    So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.
    1 Corinthians 14:11-13 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 14 (Whole Chapter)

In closing, here is a passage that the Apostle Paul teaches about the church, there are many messages taught about you, what is on the inside is the church. A place where you can study, worship and praise God – this is the true church, the believer in the annointing, which is non other than Jesus Christ. Therefore a Believer in Him only can promote the spiritual legacy that he or she knows is true and that is that Jesus is Lord. The difference between me and a typical Jewish is that I am a blood born Jew, I love the idea of Jesus Christ, and I am excited to hear his name, and I love to see people talk about the Lord, it makes me smile on the inside. I have to do what makes me happy. What makes me different than a Christian is that I promote my heritage – my message from the blood, sweat and tears of the Lord’s Priest, this belongs to me spiritually, collectively and biologically, so that is what makes me different from a Christian and a Jew; the conquested land and the biological legacy and heritage – this belongs to me. I can say yes, I remember that I lived in Lett which is Macedonia, near Lithuanian. I can say yes, I remember a time we were in exile in Babylon, which is paying for it today with the Iraq war. In Parsha Vayeitz and Vayishlach we read about the great journey of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. You can not interfere with the task God has set aside for you. My task is not to discredit Mohammad or the Quran, but to discover myself and the preach the Gospel that the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.


So the veracity is giving to who Jesus chooses in His own will, in Ephesians 4. Jesus also tells you what you need to do be a follower in Him, on Tuesday, December 12th, 2009, read Mark 8:34-38

34And calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he said to them, "If anyone would come after me, let him(AS) deny himself and(AT) take up his cross and follow me. 35For(AU) whoever would save his life[d] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake(AV) and the gospel’s will save it. 36(AW) For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul? 37For(AX) what can a man give in return for his soul? 38For(AY) whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this(AZ) adulterous and sinful generation, of him will the Son of Man also be ashamed(BA) when he comes in the glory of his Father with(BB) the holy angels."

1 Thessalonians 1 (King James Version)

1 Thessalonians 1

 1Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 2We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;

 3Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

 4Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

 5For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

 6And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

 7So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.

 8For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.

 9For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

 10And to wait for his "Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

Revelation 19 (King James Version)

Revelation 19:10

10And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.



The gift of Apostles, Evangelist and Prophets, is a respond to Jesus:

  1. Acts 21:8
    Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the evangelist, one of the Seven.
    Acts 21:7-9 (in Context) Acts 21 (Whole Chapter)
  2. Ephesians 4:11
    It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers,
    Ephesians 4:10-12 (in Context) Ephesians 4 (Whole Chapter)
  3. 2 Timothy 4:5
    But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.
    2 Timothy 4:4-6 (in Context) 2 Timothy 4 (Whole Chapter)

Today’s news:


Coordinated blasts hit Baghdad; kill at least 121. By BRIAN MURPHY, Associated Press Writer Brian Murphy, Associated Press Writer 29 mins ago.


Ephesians 4:11 (English Standard Version):

  1. 11And(A) he gave the(B) apostles, the prophets, the(C) evangelists, the(D) shepherds[a] and teachers,[b]


    1. Ephesians 4:11 Or pastors
    2. Ephesians 4:11 Or the shepherd-teachers


Finally Jesus said that, "For to the one who has, more will be given, and from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away."25(AG) For to the one who has, more will be given, and from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away." Mark 4:25. Jesus will give more to his people, the one that study the word and carry the mission of Jacob, our ancestor. Many cry Jacob, but biologically they are far from being Jewish. Nevertheless, I came to Jesus on my own personal knowledge, which I can’t give to you, I can only encourage to seek eternal life. So the work of evangelism is two fold, for those who truely descended from Jacob and want to embrace Judaism, the annointing then there is the Lion call for Judah. then there is the call for you to put away your idols and serve God and typically 3 billion or more fit into this category and the numbers are growing, it is the most popular book in the world, and that is non other than the King James Version. What is striking different for Christianity and Judaism is that Mohammad is not their profit, he is not their Shepherd, and when you he is not a gift to a people, a generation, a legacy, a heritage then the people can not and will not hear them, but thanks to Jesus, our High Priest, I believe everything that was said about me in the book, of the Holy Bible. I believe that I am more than a conqueror, through Jesus Christ. I am the Lord’s Priest, and I am a prophecy the full testimony of the Law, thanks be to Jesus Christ.


There is so much to learn about Jesus, but you need the course of Genesis 1 through Revelations 22, and of course you need the Masters’ Touch. Once you get that then you can drop it like it is hot, and the annointing will spread.


Cordially yours,

Thalia C. Sanders
web page (1):
Cc: Solid-Goldis

The Interlinear Hebrew-Greek-English Bible, One-Volume Edition  -              By: Jay P. Green      Additional Views

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Table of Contents | Excerpt 

Jesus gets a new name: Revelations 22:3-10
3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
 4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
 5And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
 6And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
 7Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
 8And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
 9Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
 10And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
A PROPHET MUST CONVERT TO JUDIASM TO BE ACCEPTED BY ME, HE MUST BE BORN AGAIN, SAVED SANCTIFIED AND FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT OF GOD. IF you are indeed a descendant of Abraham, no one can lay a priestly blessing on you because you were born with it…. A Jewish or Christian will not accept a prophet if he is Muslim, I know that I wouldn’t…. Land as prophecy are like wings on an air plane.

  1. Matthew 14:5
    Herod wanted to kill John, but he was afraid of the people, because they considered him a prophet.
    Matthew 14:4-6 (in Context) Matthew 14 (Whole Chapter)
  2. Matthew 23:34
    Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
    Matthew 23:33-35 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
  3. Matthew 23:37
    "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
    Matthew 23:36-38 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
  4. Luke 11:47
    "Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your forefathers who killed them.
    Luke 11:46-48 (in Context) Luke 11 (Whole Chapter)
  5. Luke 11:48
    So you testify that you approve of what your forefathers did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs.
    Luke 11:47-49 (in Context) Luke 11 (Whole Chapter)
  6. Luke 11:49
    Because of this, God in his wisdom said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.’
    Luke 11:48-50 (in Context) Luke 11 (Whole Chapter)
  7. Luke 13:34
    "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
    Luke 13:33-35 (in Context) Luke 13 (Whole Chapter)
  8. Acts 7:52
    Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him—
    Acts 7:51-53 (in Context) Acts 7 (Whole Chapter)
  9. Romans 11:3
    "Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me" ?
    Romans 11:2-4 (in Context) Romans 11 (Whole Chapter)
  10. 1 Thessalonians 2:15
    who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men
    1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 2 (Whole Chapter)
  11. Revelation 18:24
    In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earth."
    Revelation 18:23-24 (in Context) Revelation 18 (Whole Chapter)

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From: Dalia Al-Faiumy
Sent: Sun, December 6, 2009 2:51:31 PM
Subject: [Christs_Chosen_Few] The Man who Challenged the Quran


Gary Miller

In 1977, Professor Gary Miller, the active Canadian preacher and mathematics and logic lecturer at Toronto University, decided to provide a great service to Christianity through exposing scientific and historical errors in the Noble Quran in such a way that would be beneficial to him and his fellow preachers in calling Muslims to Christianity. However, the result was completely to the contrary. Miller’s writings were fair and his study and comments were positive, even better than many Muslims would write about the Noble Quran. He considered the Noble Quran, as it should be and reached the conclusion that it cannot be a work of a human being.

The first surprising issue for Professor Miller was the challenging tone in many ayahs1   such as the ayahs that can be translated as “Will they not then contemplate the Quran? And if it had been from (anywhere) other than the Providence of Allah, indeed they would have found in it many difference (s).” (TMQ2   4:82) and “And in case you are suspicious (Literally: in suspicion) about what We have been sending down upon Our bondman, (i.e., the prophet. A bondman or slave is the highest title conferred by Allah upon his chosen men) then come up with a surah of like (manner), and invoke your witnesses, apart from Allah, in case you are sincere.” (TMQ 2:23) Although Professor Miller was challenging at the beginning he ended astonished at what he found.

The following are some of the points he mentioned in Miller’s lecture The Amazing Quran3 :

There is no such author who writes a book and then challenges others that this book is errorless. As for the Noble Quran, it is the other way round. It tells the reader that there are no errors in it and then challenges all people to find any, if any.

The Noble Quran does not mention the hard events in Prophet Muhammad’s (SAWS)4 personal life, such as the death of his dear wife Lady Khadijah (RA)5 , death of his daughters and sons. Strangely enough, the ayahs that were revealed as a comment on some of the setbacks proclaimed victory while those revealed at time of victory warned against arrogance and called for more sacrifices and efforts. If one writes his own autobiography, he would magnify the victories and justify the defeats. The Noble Quran did the opposite and this is consistent and logical: it was not a history of a specific period but rather a text that sets general rules for the relationship between Allah (SWT)6   and worshippers.

Miller thought about a particular ayah that can be translated as “Say, “Surely I admonish you with one (thing) only, that you rise up to Allah by twos and singly; thereafter meditate: in no way is there any madness in your Companion. Decidedly he is nothing except a constant warner to you, before (Literally: between the hands of) a strict torment.” (TMQ 34:46) He indicated the experiments one researcher had carried out at Toronto University on “Effectiveness of Collective Discussion”. The researcher had gathered different numbers of interlocutors in discussions and compared results. He discovered that the maximum efficiency of the discussion was achieved when the interlocutors were two while the more the number the less the efficiency.  

There is a surah7   in the Noble Quran called Maryam (Mary) in which Lady Maryam (AS) is eulogized in a way not even found in the Bible. At the same time, there is no surah in the name of Lady Aisha (RA) or Lady Fatimah (RA). The name of prophet Isa (AS) (Jesus) is mentioned 25 times in the Noble Qur’an while the name of Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) is mentioned only five times.

Some attackers say that devils used to dictate to Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) what to write in the Noble Quran. But the question is how could this be while it contains ayahs that can be translated as “And in no way have Ash-Shayatîn (The ever-Vicious (ones), i.e., the devils) been coming down with it; And in no way does it behoove them, And in no way are they able to do (that).” (TMQ 29:209-210) and “So when you read the Quran, then seek refuge in Allah from the outcast Shaytan (The all-vicious, i.e., the Devil).” (TMQ 16:98)

If you were in the situation of the Prophet (SAWS) while he and Abu-Bakr (RA) were inside the Cave of Hira’9   surrounded by the unbelievers who could have seen them if they had looked down. The human reaction would be to search for a back exit or some other way out or to shush in order not to be heard. However, the Prophet (SAWS) told Abu-Bakr (RA) “Grieve not; surely Allah is with us.” (TMQ 9:40). This is not the mentality of a deceiver; it is the mentality of a prophet who has the confidence that Allah (SWT) would surely take care of him.    

Surat al-Masad (Palm Fibres)10   was revealed ten years before the death of Abu-Lahab, the Prophet’s (SAWS) uncle. He had ten complete years to prove that the Noble Quran was wrong. However, he did not believe or even pretend to believe. How could the Prophet (SAWS) be that confident unless he was sure that the Noble Quran was Allah’s (SWT) revelation?

Commenting on the ayah that can be translated as “That is of the tidings of the Unseen that We reveal to you; in no way did you (yourself) know it, neither your people, even before this. So (endure) patiently; surely the (fair) end is for the pious.” (TMQ: 11:49) Miller writes that none of the Scriptures uses this kind of style; that is, giving the reader the piece of information and then tells him it is new information. It is really a unique challenge. What if the people of Makkah, even by pretence, had said they knew that before? What if one scholar discovered later that this information was already known before? However, this did not happen.  

Professor Miller mentioned what Contemporary Catholic Encyclopedia includes under the entry ‘Quran’. It mentions that despite the plethora of studies, theories, and attempts to attack the veracity of Quranic revelation under many pretexts none of them can be logically adopted. The Church itself did not dare to adopt any of such theories but at the same time it did not admit the truthfulness of the Muslims’ theory that the Noble Quran is, without doubt, the last heavenly revelation.


In fact, Professor Miller was fair enough and was honest enough to change his position and choose the right way. Blessed be he and those who search for truth and do not allow their prejudices to prevent them from reaching it.  

Final Comment    
In 1977, Professor Miller had a famous debate with Islamic preacher Ahmad Deedat. His logic was clear and his justifications seemed based on intent to reach the truth without pride or prejudice. Many wished at the time that this man would embrace Islam.

In 1978 Professor Miller embraced Islam and called himself Abdul-Ahad11 . He worked for some years at Oil and Minerals University in Saudi Arabia and then devoted his life to da’wa12   through TV programs and public lectures.

Just think and do not let your prejudices prevent you from the right path.

links for that debate com/results? search_query= Gary+Miller+ +ahmed+dedaat&page=1
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

   1-A verse in the Quran.
  2- Translation of the Meaning of the Quran.  This translation is for the realized meaning, so far, of the stated (Surah: Ayah) of the Quran.  Reading the translated meaning of the Quran can never replace reading it in Arabic, the language in which it was revealed.
  3- It is a small tract of about 25 pages but a very thick one indeed.
  4- Salla Allah alayhe Wa Salam [All Prayers and Peace of Allah be upon him].
  5- Radya Allah anhu/anha [May Allah be pleased with him/her].
  6- Suhanahu wa Ta’ala  [Glorified and Exalted Be He].
 7-  A chapter; the Qur’an is comprised of 114 surahs.
  8- Alayhe (alayha) as-salam [All Peace of Allah be upon him/her].
  9- This was during the hejira to al-Madinah. The Cave of Hira’ is in the Mount an-Nour. It is only two miles from Makkah, a small cave 4 yards long and 1.75 yard wide.
  10- It can be translated as “Would the hands of Abu Lahab be cut up, (i.e., perish) and would he be cut up (too)! In no way did his wealth avail him, neither whatever he earned; He will roast at a flaming Fire, (Literally: fire comprising flame). And his wife, the constant bearer of firewood, Upon her (long) neck she will have a rope of palm-fibers.” (TMQ: 111:1-5)
  11- This name literally means ‘Worshipper of the Only One.’
  12- Islamic call.




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